Let's talk blades!

[Local Talent]

I admitted in the flashlights thread to not being much of a gear-head. That applies to knives. I consider their use as back-up weapons as only very remotely likely, and have really rarely used them as tools in L.A.'s urban environment.

To me they're a piece of kit to carry just in case, that has mostly served to impress clients who had something to cut. :o Cops, soldiers & paramedics surely have a different take on this.

So I'm currently on my second S&W SWAT unit. Don't laugh: although made in Taiwan of soft steel and aluminium, with a blade that needs frequent sharpening, I find it very handy and ergonomic. Most people think it's an automatic (illegal here) when I flip it open, and the rubber inserts make it very secure and comfortable to hold.

I carry the medium-sized one regardless of mission and dress.

To me, it's the equivalent of the Mossberg pump: light, well balanced, and perfectly ergonomic (and cheap)... if not as rugged or sophisticated as some other makes.

What do you guys all favor?

[Mata-Leão]

First off Local Talent, let me say you should be ashamed of yourself not posting pictures. You can easily doctor the picture and cover up the 'Made In Taiwan' if it bothers you. :D

I have always been a fan of the different steals out there aside from basic 440a and 440c. I have owned many Aus-8, Aus-6 and ATS-34 knives. The Rockwell hardness of some of the steels out there make it a bear to sharpen, unlike the 440. So, in my opinion the 440 sometimes serves an more practical purpose. Plus, I would assume the 440 would not be as brittle if a massive side prying pressure was put on it like ATS-34 - which I have witnessed break.

I have owned Spyderco, Cold Steel, Junglee, CRKT and S.O.G. I have always wanted to own a Benchmade. They sell Benchmade full autos here in CR for a hefty price. Tis' legal for me to carry a full auto here but have yet to buy one.

Here are some eye candy photos of the knives I have in rotation. Except for the Junglee boot knife at the bottom.

S.O.G Flash Tanto
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f390/ebbylyn/2SOGlong.jpg

Cold Steel
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f390/ebbylyn/3coldsteelxl.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f390/ebbylyn/4coldsteelxllong.jpg

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f390/ebbylyn/6all3knives.jpg

Cold Steel Voyager
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f390/ebbylyn/5coldsteelxxl.jpg

Junglee Boot Knife
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f390/ebbylyn/7junglee.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f390/ebbylyn/8jungleelong.jpg

[Local Talent]

Nice pics, man! That's some serious steel right there... :thumbs:
I hadn't considered the issues of hard steel that you mention. Maybe I'll stick to my S&Ws that I can sharpen on anything, after all. :D

Most guys I've seen carry the blades you brought up (especially Spyderco). Personally, I don't like handles made entirely of hard material (esp. plastic).

Otherwise and FWIW, a gun forum I used to belong to had me "out" all my gear for the world to see ("if we can't see it, it don't exist!"), and I'm not going there anymore... :secretagent:

[Mata-Leão]

Yes, being able to sharpen a knife is quite important. Some of these knives I have, have a rockwell hardness of 58. That makes for a sharpening hassle.

That reminds me of a thread on GlockT@lk dot com where this guy was claiming to own an inordinate amount of Glocks. Finally, his "bluff" was called and he posted a picture of his bed symmetrically filled with Glocks, some of them doubles...shut everyone up.



I just searched for the picture and found it.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f390/ebbylyn/bedglocks.jpg

[Local Talent]

No Glock guy, here... But you'll have to take my word for it! :p :D

[usabodyguard]

I really prefer a knife with a serrated edge... it stays sharp and if you have to pull it in a last resort self-defense matter it can do some brutal damage... My current knife is a CRT tanto with a 1/2 serrated edge at the bottom.

Knives can be viscious... this is what happened to a police officer while trying to detain a suspect...

http://www.pipersystem.com/Officer_Stabbed_01.JPG

[Mata-Leão]

USA - I currently have a Spyderco with a serrated edge. Getting through clothing to cause a tragedy is certainly what they can do. That picture is an eye:eek:opener! (thinking my next purchase is going to be a serrated Katana!)

Local - I sold all of my Glocks before coming here. But I do wish I would have kept my Glock 26 9mm. I could be wearing a spandex suit and still conceal that pistol. So small. It comes with a 10 round flush mag, but i had a +2 extension that also gave pinky support. So, anytime you have a little backup pistol that packs 12+1, I am game.

My preference though is my HK or Sig.

Let me guess..are you a loyal LLAMA follower?:D:D

[flash]

This is what I carry every day. I'm not a professional, but I live on Ft. Bragg, surrounded by fayetteville, which can get pretty dicey. http://www.emersonknives.com/karambitinfo.htm

Awesome knife, kept in the pocket, it can be drawn and opened in a single movement thats faster then having a switch blade.

The cold steel ti-lite opens similarly, but it's not a krambit.

[Mata-Leão]

oooh, Flash, I like that knife! I know the Ti-lite and have seen that method of opening used by persons very comfortable with it. I kept thinking they were walking around with an open folder in their pocket. Every time they would pull it out, *pop* it was open JUST AS SOON as it left the pocket because of that little protruding stud.

I am actually not a very big fan of Cold Steel. I really like Benchmade - without even owning one.

Does your knife have that EVIL red glow surrounding it like shown in the picture? :devil:

[Local Talent]

Let me guess..are you a loyal LLAMA follower?:D:D
Well, I'm partial to Taurus and Lorcin, but, yeah, Llamas are sweet. :eek:
No, I'm a (real) 1911 guy... did I say "old school" somewhere? :D Not to hi-jack my own thread, but I have nothing against a Glock or any other quality polymer, as long as it's in someone else's holster. :p

Back to the subject at hand, I've seen a few pics such as the one posted by usabodyguard. And I think everyone should force themselves to take a good look at them. Within range, a blade can do more damage than most handguns, IMO: if that perp had gone for thrusting instead of slashing motions, this poor cop would probably be horizontal.

That nifty little toy you have, flash, looks like it'd do a lot of damage in the right hands (not mine).

[flash]

The red glow is optional, it's an extra $20, but totally worth it.

I've done a little training with Krambit style knives, and they are wicked little knives.
One application I've seen it used for, is when you have your pistol on your hip, you keep the knife in the opposit side pocket. So if some one goes for your firearm, you pin their hand down on your weapon, then pull out and drag the knife across their forearm.
I've drilled this a few times, and WOW. Scary how much damage you can do very quickly.
I love that knife.

[mountainman]

As a Corrections officer for the past 8 years Ive seen some impressive wounds caused By improvised Slashing weapons, luckily none on a officer, everything from tooth-pick handles with razors melted into them to intricate daggers made from stolen metal of a table top. weapons are way to easy to Secret and rarely found in a prison setting. My point i guess is on the streets , the option for those who would do harm to us or the client is huge and almost everywhere i go i see money-clip knives. the picture of the guys back should speak for its self. Ive seen this photo in a gang class somewhere, and cant remember the story behind it, but i think its a inmate not a officer who got slashed up for some reason. I personally like coldsteel and spyderco and own a few of each, my favorite being my 5 inch Coldsteel voyager Tanto. Be Safe!

[Local Talent]

Within range, I'm more concerned by edged weapons than firearms, frankly. That Tanto will go through a car door and probably cut a good size rope like nothing. Nice kit, mountainman!

[Geo]

Has anyone ever taken any knife either offensive or defensive course?. Just wondering?

[Local Talent]

That's a negative here, and why I have so little interest in them, I guess. I see them only as hardly-ever-used tools, with only the very remote possibility of needing them in a defensive role. Not that it's never done...http://www.policeone.com/police-products/duty-gear/restraints/articles/1802978-Off-duty-Pa-officer-stabs-suspect-who-attacked-him-with-handcuffs/ :D

ETA: I remember a relatively recent case of an estate security guard (ex-LEO) who stabbed an intruder somewhere, but couldn't find it. While searching for it, I came across quite a few uses of "pocket knives" in self-defense, like this one: http://articles.latimes.com/2006/dec/08/local/me-stabbing8.
It might be a case of what happens when clients want unarmed security but are still the target of violence. No matter what, there's still gonna be blood on their expensive carpet. And that's a case for at least some edged weapons training...

[Lone Wolf]

That's a negative here, and why I have so little interest in them, I guess. I see them only as hardly-ever-used tools, with only the very remote possibility of needing them in a defensive role. Not that it's never done...http://www.policeone.com/police-products/duty-gear/restraints/articles/1802978-Off-duty-Pa-officer-stabs-suspect-who-attacked-him-with-handcuffs/ :D

ETA: I remember a relatively recent case of an estate security guard (ex-LEO) who stabbed an intruder somewhere, but couldn't find it. While searching for it, I came across quite a few uses of "pocket knives" in self-defense, like this one: http://articles.latimes.com/2006/dec/08/local/me-stabbing8.
It might be a case of what happens when clients want unarmed security but are still the target of violence. No matter what, there's still gonna be blood on their expensive carpet. And that's a case for at least some edged weapons training...

While LT is right Knives are pretty much history.. HOWEVER... It is always good to know knife fighting techniques JUST IN CASE.. You ever get caught with your 6 hanging in the breeze. I have had some knife training.. Am I proficient??? OH HELL NO... Can I survive.. More than likely... Just another art and technique that every person in this industry should have some (even if limited) training in knives...

[Geo]

in Le i have seen my share of improvised edged weapons. never on the ep side. but any good parolee is usually very cable with any improvised edge weapon.

[Dr Satan]

Knives are my best friends and so does cash. ^_^


I going to find my cam and post some of my blades.:D

[black knife]

I have trained in few Filipino Martial Arts fighting styles over the years...Kali and Escrima. I still do to this day. I feel knife training is just as important as gun training.

I also teach a basic knife fighting course for LEO and Military.

[Local Talent]

With a handle like yours I was wondering when you'd chime in on this! (How about some pics, BTW? :D)

We live in a gun culture, but you're probably right about training. I'm thinking defensive training, of course, although here's another case of a blade being deployed by security in an offensive manner (defensive situation) so all training can help, you just never know: http://articles.latimes.com/2006/dec/08/local/me-stabbing8.
I think it may be the LEO or former LEO that I was thinking of, maybe somebody could confirm.

[black knife]

With a handle like yours I was wondering when you'd chime in on this! (How about some pics, BTW? :D)

We live in a gun culture, but you're probably right about training. I'm thinking defensive training, of course, although here's another case of a blade being deployed by security in an offensive manner (defensive situation) so all training can help, you just never know: http://articles.latimes.com/2006/dec/08/local/me-stabbing8.
I think it may be the LEO or former LEO that I was thinking of, maybe somebody could confirm.

I knew a deputy that got into a fight with a suspect and they went to the ground. He struggled with the guy for a while and ended up getting the suspects back but the guy was on top of him. He was working the county area so back up was far away.

He was getting tired struggling with the guy so he decided he was going to shoot him but could not get to his gun. So he pulled out his knife and placed the tip of it to the suspects neck. He told him to stop or he was going to stick him in the neck.

Well the suspect stopped fighting and he remained in that position holding the knife to the guys neck until back up finally arrived.

Oh yeah he got into trouble for using the knife as a weapon....can you believe that?

I always carry a knife even when I was packing. You never know when you might need it other than cutting a seatbelt.

[Local Talent]

Oh yeah he got into trouble for using the knife as a weapon....can you believe that?

I always carry a knife even when I was packing. You never know when you might need it other than cutting a seatbelt.
I believe it, as preposterous as it sounds. There may have been a policy against carrying knives or certain types of knives on duty, no? If it was allowed, the deputy should really have been off the hook. Regardless, he did what he had to do to live, and if that meant getting a little slap on the wrist, so be it!
Some policies just don't seem to make any sense.

I also carry mine daily, clipped to my weak side's pants pocket. That's a piece of kit so easy and discreet to carry that there's no excuse for not always have one handy.

[Lone Wolf]

I always carry a knife weak side belt, pants or pocket side. As far as using it the way the deputy did... BRAVO TO HIM.. He not only survived the attack he won. Bottom line... Its all about winning the attacks and not just surviving them. Surviving an attack means that you possibly end up in a wheel chair or peeing in a bag the rest of your life.. You walk away basically unscathed... Able to continue your normal daily way of life.

[Local Talent]

Its all about winning the attacks and not just surviving them. Surviving an attack means that you possibly end up in a wheel chair or peeing in a bag the rest of your life..
Actually, I'm in total agreement with that, although I don't always spell it out because it's a personal attitude of mine. I don't have such a strong will to live, but I find that summoning a counter-attack mode (the will to destroy) is easy. Survival is only a potential consequence of it. Most people aren't usually willing to follow me on that. It's a predator's mindset.

[Geo]

Good stuff. Bravo to the deputy. he has moxie.....

[Lone Wolf]

Actually, I'm in total agreement with that, although I don't always spell it out because it's a personal attitude of mine. I don't have such a strong will to live, but I find that summoning a counter-attack mode (the will to destroy) is easy. Survival is only a potential consequence of it. Most people aren't usually willing to follow me on that. It's a predator's mindset.

I believe that you (especially on duty) have to be in a predator mindset.. By being in that mindset, you will more than likely come out on top.. But you always want to tip the odds in your favor and the more they are tipped in your favor the more likely you are to WIN the battle.. Once you are attacked and (IF) you are caught off guard you are already behind the 8 ball.. Not a good scenario.. ALWAYS BE AWARE OF YOUR SURROUNDINGS.. and if that little voice in the back of your head starts talking LISTEN...

[Brian1944]

LT like you more and more. 1911. My theroy is if it aint broke dont fix it. 1911 is a great gun. I have a 1911 stlye Kimber pro carry II. Can conceal that thing anywhere.

[Geo]

Lawful carry in City of La is a 3 inch blade.

[Local Talent]

Thanks and I hear you, "Mr. Smith"! :)

The older you get, the more you see things come and go, be it gear, tactics, or whatever else. So it's natural after a while to hang on to the tried and true, what has staying power. They can go sell the flash to somebody else, AFAIC. Progress? Nothing against it, of course, but I have to be convinced of the need to change before I embrace it.

We're in a thread on blades, but I think they share something with firearms: contrary to what we're often told, their technology has peaked long ago. I don't believe that the little, incremental "improvements" here and there are so necessary. There's often a quest for profitability behind them, and some simple repackaging. A 1911 or a KA-BAR gets the job done as well as when it was first introduced, while a 2010 Mustang would bury a 1965 one, performance-wise.

This being said, and as I've admitted elsewhere... Were I 20 years younger, I might sing another tune: our tastes and opinions are often shaped by the era we grew up in. I know I have a hard time letting go of wheelguns for that reason alone.

[RONIN]

everyday i carry a sog folder.. stateside or overseas.. on my weak side ie. pocket, belt..

and LT your love of 1911's doesn't make you old.. just makes you smart.. for knowing such a good thing..

but yes i do agree.. in the ep field you need to be well versed in all types of weapons.. hand to hand, knives, guns,

and as i always say.. if your gonna carry it.. know how to use it.. ie.. knife, hand to hand.. or a gun..

[Local Talent]

and LT your love of 1911's doesn't make you old.. just makes you smart.. for knowing such a good thing..
Yeah, thanks for saying that, bro. You know how it is, though: after so many years of brainwashing, people now think that C&L is as dangerous and obsolete as RWD, or that plastic is better than steel... It's now rare to see a 1911 in the holster of someone under 40.