International Certification?

[Bentot56]

I was on another forum the other day and the subject was International Certification for Personal Protection Agents. The consensus of the discussion was that it would be nice but impossible to do. I for one am for an internationally recognized certification to standardize and legitimize the various courses currently being run.

What are your thoughts?

[Local Talent]

Gave it some thought, and what I'll say is just my personal opinion, of course.

Like many on here, I live and operate in California. This state is obsessed with liability and regulation, so our profession in particular has been targetted for more and more training requirements and certifications.

My observation is that regulation only generates red tape and the businesses (training facilities, instructors) that soon pop up to harvest the income generated by every new piece of legislation (our money).
I'm not sure I want to detail what I know online, but most of this is useless to us, and meaningless in a lot of cases. In many cases, I consider this fleecing merely the cost of doing business, a cost that keeps going up.
AB 2880 is a good example of a bill that appears to make sense on the surface, and to be designed to protect the public, but that turns out to be just another hassle for professionals and a smoke screen at best.

So in general, I'm for minimum standards that would be actually maintained and enforced. The industry should police itself. I know this can sound naive, but I don't see any extra requirements raising proficiency levels in private security.

To address the issue of international certs specifically, I don't even know whether standardization would be possible on a domestic scale. But even if that were doable, what national or international body (association?) would step in to establish standards and verify that they are met?

I must say, I actually like the idea that US states all do their own thing, because that gives us a choice. We can still pick an AO where taxes are lower, or where CCWs are issued easily, or where the rules fit our idea of how business should be done.

I don't think that the current system is perfect, but I doubt much can be done effectively, and am suspicious of international accords and agreements in general.

Those who travel a lot (I don't) may have a different opinion.

[Lone Wolf]

I generally think that there should be a NATIONAL STANDARD for EP work within our own borders ie.. Security covers this EP work covers that PI work covers this.. Meaning that each person within the CONUS is entitled to work in what ever state they choose and all have the same licensing requirements and that each state recognized the others kind of like the CCW at this time.. Yeah I know its not possible.. With each different state having its own laws rules of arrest and so on.. But the thought is a nice one..

The professional person would have to take the state statues test or something like that to be able to work in those states but over all the rules are the same. Just different numbers... Long story short.. I do realize that there are some states that actually give the Security Personnel the power of arrest.... As an example Virginia Security Officers have powers of arrest established where as in Florida the Arrest Laws for Security Personnel are nothing more than Common Law.. And the Security Professional has no more arrest authority than the average private citizen.
So as it is there is a very large gap in the industry all the way around. regardless of if it is Security, PI or even EP work...

[Bentot56]

LT I understand your concerns and can agree with a lot of it. I am more concerned about the phoneys and charlatans that are making the profession look bad. We need to put standards in place to be able to police ourselves, which at this point there is no way we can do that. And as Lone Wolf has pointed out having a national standard so that you can go to Arizona or Nevada and work without having to pay the bureaucratic fees and take some meaningless test to be licensed in a particular state for a security guard license. As for an organization the SCBA could be a start.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

[Local Talent]

Yes, I hear you guys. Our profession is rife with wannabes and poseurs with embellished to fake creds. But most of those I met worked for companies, not themselves, so I blame their employers and co-workers for letting the charade go unimpeded. And these guys all had the proper licensing.

To me it's like this: there's so many gun laws today that even lawyers are confused. Still, some keep pushing for more while most remain unenforced.
Or this, there was a recent LA Times article about incompetent or negligent nurses being able to keep working by slipping through the cracks. Similar scandals keep popping up about doctors, teachers, cops, and all kinds of professions where you'd think a zero tolerance policy for this should be in place.
The common thread is that everybody knows and looks the other way while one person usually blows the whistle without effect.

I do realize that travel, statewide or international, is a problem for us. Whether it's about weapons transport and use, or uniform licensing, we have to tread carefully and do a lot of homework.
But I don't think we should count on the system to do an impossible task that we could take on ourselves.

There's already ASIS. I've looked into their certs and gave up because of:
1. Cost
2. Most working people I know aren't members, so why bother?

[Lone Wolf]

Gun Laws...
Yeah thats a big problem. Hey here is a great idea.. Make the gun laws a NATIONAL STANDARD.. Hmm Gotta Love that Constitution..
As far as gun control goes. I think Cali is in for a battle very soon. Based on the facts that the NRA has been kicking the crap out of cities like Washington DC and Chicago... Time will tell.. Chicago is pending a large case in the supreme court and is more than likely going to lose the battle. The Supreme Court recently ruled AGAINST Washington DC and now you are permitted to Carry Concealed. HMMMMMM

[Geo]

is Anyone working the golden globes on sunday??

[Local Talent]

Not me. Was scheduled to work my robberry suppression gig, but a lot of those details are being pulled and I quit. Will be at the Grammy's, however... :)

[Geo]

got it LT. Working it. should be interesting.

[Geo]

Also for international stuff check out the IBBSA. It is an international bodyguard association.

[Local Talent]

The thing is, in order for such an international association/cert process to be worth anything, it would have to set forth stringent screening standards AND apply them consistently. So far, most of what I've seen, from online searches or agents' business cards, seems to be not much more than easily accessible clubs (to the exception of ASIS, that I've already mentioned).
Memberships make people appear serious and legit, but it's window dressing IME.

IF such an international body was to appear AND ended up recognized everywhere, now that would be interesting and definitely worth joining.

[Lone Wolf]

I gotta say that I totally agree with you... That would be a very big deal

[Hawk]

This would be interesting but impossible, since there are so many countries in the world with special laws and systems for this and where it is fully legal in one country it is forbidden in another.
Also the training would cover all the international laws and languages and it will be impossible. Ex in Sweden where I live real close protection work is mainly for the security services (Police Force) they cover the royal family, government, foreign diplomat visits etc.
But to work with security in sweden you must be employed in an authorised security company which have been approved by police and one certain department within the government. In Sweden there are about 200 registered security service companies, and only 7 or 8 of them are aloud to work with close protection.
These companies need to have a special authorisation for close protection, and its only given to the biggest companies and as a extra service thing..it means this service cant be above 25% of the total company, they have to do Cash in transit, alarm response or something else as main service.
Of these 7-8 companies only 5-6 of them are aloud to work armed with glock pistols.
2 roles within the private security industry is given license to work with 9mm pistol and that is
- close protection officers, and protection-security officers who guard important (military classified buildings or very important structures, facilities to Swedens interest) one of them is for ex: Kockums in Sweden who manufacture our U-boats, Volvo Aero is another..

In ex Norway they dont work armed at all, and its not even called cp security (ledsagare) and in plain english that means someone escorting somene in Swedish more like lending someone an arm to escort them over the street.
In other countries there are other rules and regulations.

The SIA licens that came to affect in UK by 2006, is for individauls when in Sweden no individual is aloud to work with security services such as cp, manned guarding all must be under a company. The license or authorisation in Sweden is only for companies, and in other countries such as UK for the individual so therefore it will be impossible.
However I do welcome a standard training package with the syllabus that every government in the world who legaly aloud cp services would agree on
But if we ever will see that I doubt that very much

Hawk

[Geo]

Hawk,
Have you heard of the IBSSA?. Check them out

[Hawk]

yes I have they are just a bodyguard association among others and there are so many of them
ibssa, pba, iba, ifpo, bba, wfb, ileta, etc...
It has nothing to do with international certificates or licenses, in the end its all about who is recognised or the instructors reputation.
hawk

[Local Talent]

yes I have they are just a bodyguard association among others and there are so many of them
ibssa, pba, iba, ifpo, bba, wfb, ileta, etc...
It has nothing to do with international certificates or licenses, in the end its all about who is recognised or the instructors reputation.
hawk
Yes, it is my take also. I have seen a few business cards with those listed, and believe most exist to make the member appear legit and credible to potential clients. I see them as clubs.

Look, an internationally recognized cert won't probably be feasible until we live under one world government (:eek:). As Hawk explains, EP is much more limited and controlled in a lot of European countries, for example, and they don't have the need that we do for that type of cert (or EP).

It's in the US where most everybody can hang up a shingle and improvise themselves EP, PI, or bounty hunter, that uniform and recognized standards would be helpful.

The thing is, a lot of things are like that here ("buyer beware") and I personally like it that way. If you get a taste of how closed doors are in the Old World, and how it favors nepotism and cronyism, you'll come to think that a few bad apples that come and go are only the small price to pay for the freedom and business-friendly atmosphere we all enjoy.
Like I said, the industry (that's us) should take care of turning away, shunning, or even reporting the clowns. But I know it's easier said than done.