Protector or servant?

[Local Talent]

A discussion has emerged on this subject following a job posting here: http://www.socalbodyguards.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1787#post1787

Anybody who has done EP (or even any type of protective work, like private security) for even a day knows about the dilemma: do we stand back to the wall and speak to no one, or do we become part of the client's entourage/support system to the point of losing sight of the mission?
I'm sure that the extremes are not sustainable and we all fall somewhere in the middle, with subjective lists of what we would or would not do on the job. And so far, I'll be honest, I have not seen two professionals agree.

The client, legit or not, who placed the ad above obviously wants someone juggling two jobs at once. Obviously again, someone unfamiliar with personal protection and in need of a reality check. :rolleyes:

As some have pointed out, what previous agents have done (good or bad) for a client will condition his/her response to you. And as far as the company, it can either back you up ("that's right, our guys can't do that and here's why..."), or leave you out to dry ("we're in the service industry, so if they want you to park cars, you do it" - much more likely, IME).
Sometimes we can "(re)educate" the client, and sometimes we can't.
And to further muddy the waters (and confuse everyone)... realize that domestic agencies do provide bodyguards and drivers/security. Go tell someone you can't move a car for them when your employer sends butlers and maids to that client...

A relatively heated discussion on the topic just took place on another forum. For those who haven't caught it, it was sparked by this very good article: http://www.securitydrivernews.com/?p=784/.

Personally, I wish that I could focus solely on protective duties and systematically decline "helping out". Unfortunately, the guys that do anything to keep or get a job will always pull the rug from under the pros. And some of the guys who decline to do anything else can be caught not exactly doing their jobs also, which undermines their attitude. Hard to say no when the client objects that agent Smith always seems to find a way to be helpful, while still doing his job. Hard to justify claims to refuse distractions when you can be observed watching TV or on the phone all day.
So I try to navigate that fine line between servant and soldier. I've said it before here, my main concerns before agreeing to do something else than "protecting" are: is it legal? Can someone get hurt if I say yes? After that... it gets complicated.
Often, I try to blend the protective role with the "PR" aspects of the job (being friendly & helpful): opening doors or carrying things for people can prevent injuries and show others who's in control. If that makes me turn my back on a threat or appear easily distracted, I don't do it. Not that easy to determine, though.
Bottom line is I tailor the service to each client (not two are the same of have the same threat level) and I educate them on what we do and how we do it, as much as possible.

I'd like to hear how more of you guys deal with this issue, so please vote and discuss. I voted #3.

[Local Talent]

Ok, no one wants to bite... :confused:
What do you all think of this ad:

Multitask-Bodyguard needed A.S.A.P
Salary: 85.000 / Yearly Location: la jolla, US
Type: Full-Time Postal Code: 92037

Wealthy Californian Family need a Protection Specialist - Must be able to
performe (sic) different task (sic):

* Bodyguard full time
* Culinary expert to prepare daily meal (just one?)
* Chaffeur (sic) any time needed
* Must pass drug test
* Gun Permit at (sic) must
* Must have previous experiences
* All expences (sic) paid for
* Must be able to fly World-Wide
* Multilingual at (sic) must
http://www.getbodyguardjobs.net/multitaskbodyguard-needed-asap-la-jolla--687581.htm

I'll pass on the suspicious misspellings (maybe they had a maid place the ad) and low salary offer (a F/T chef only would cost more). But real offer or not, it's symptomatic of the expectation that one can protect while doing something else until a threat presents itself.

Now at the estates I've worked, it was fully expected that security would perform routine tasks such as walk the dog, pick up prescriptions, park cars, drive friends/family, entertain the kids, get the mail and newspapers, etc. Some of that can be looked at as security services, but that's a stretch. Regardless, the "don't bother me this is not my job" types never lasted.
Now bodyguard-chef or bodyguard-personal assistant is pushing it in my book, but again, it betrays a fairly common mindset. So let's say you're a "culinary expert" (!)... would you apply?

[Local Talent]

Bored with myself and re-reading old posts, kinda wondering why more folks don't comment... On other forums that shall remain unnamed, you get slammed for hinting at disagreement with the local small pond Big Fish (there's always one per forum or subforum, whose behind everybody else seems to dwell in :rolleyes:), but here we're obviously all friends, thank God. And there's no dialogue or learning when everyone always agrees or remains silent.

Anyway, I was pondering this thread's dilemma: stick to the job and risk losing it or be flexible and secure your position with "customer service skills".
As I said, I think that no two people exactly agree on where the line is, but the deciding factor must be the threat level. Of course it's unfortunately rare that all be also on the same page when it comes to that.

So I was thinking of those robbery-suppression details I've worked last year, and those were typically instances where the risk was so high that I was willing to risk the job, or even the account, rather than compromise. Thankfully, the staffs were also (mostly) aware of the threat and actually appreciated the TCB types among us.
And in a way I actually enjoyed being a complete a-hole. I refused to let people ask me for directions or routinely ordered certain individuals to not "come any closer", risking complaints. That "officer friendly" bit we got to put on daily to keep our jobs does take its toll... :)

But that's really an extreme case of high threat level, with a shooting likely to take place if you lower your guard any. I've hardly ever encountered a need for this much sustained alertness on EP assignments (I don't do mob jobs :D).
As I often say, I actually deliberately smile to appear non-threatening to my clients and their people. And yes, I often handle little tasks that make security sound like a good investment after all. We do get paid for we can do, not what we do, as an agent once told me... But the thing is, most clients will never know what we can do. All they see is an invoice.

Unless under a very real and present threat (and most aren't), clients simply won't accept a rigid soldierly attitude.

But it's a juggling act, no doubt. And I do resent the guys that are only that: help. They usually pursue an agenda (I know plenty who went in-house that way and even one who became estate manager). So when you come after them, all sorts of favors are expected and actually endanger the mission. Playing that game in high-risk businesses like jewelry stores has always been a pet-peeve of mine, for instance. And I've been known to retort to employees or managers alike complaining that the new guy never picked up the phone to help (while I did), that they should "leave him alone - he's not here for that".

If it was easy we wouldn't be making the big $$$...

[Secfor]

LT in reference to the above "job" posting. It is false. This guy put it up to try and promote himself and his website. His intentions might have been good, but the more I looked around his site, the more ridiculous it became. Here's who posted the job:

Home page (http://global-bodyguard-services.com/gbshome.html)
Just Hired (http://global-bodyguard-services.com/60.html)
Bodyguard of the year (http://global-bodyguard-services.com/5.html)

Other highlights of his page...He asks you to apply for an international bodyguard permit, where he requests all of your most personal information.

On the other subject at hand. I have a good friend who is 2IC for an EP operation for a Fortune 50 (no typo) company. He calls himself "Valet with a gun"

I myself steer away from domestic ops. Never saw a head-shot plastered on a bodyguard's business card while working in Beirut, Sarajevo, etc...

I just can't stomach that sort of nonsense, so I stay away from it.

Rick

[Local Talent]

Ah, thanks for the heads-up, Secfor. The guy being italian, I now understand the many misspellings. And the fact that he seems to consider 6'/200 lbs a large size... :D
Made-up anything = unethical in my book.

For the rest, I'm with you (called myself in derision a "dog nanny" or "housesitter with a gun" more than once...), but I think that what we're talking about is the reality of most EP (especially estate) details, in LA anyway.

What I've seen of the celebrity details, in particular, is low-level and unprofessional. In turn, the clientele and work conditions attract companies and agents that you'd never meet on real ops. Lately it seems that 50% of my colleagues have been SAG members, and I have seen the business cards/headshots you mention, I'm sorry to say. And some guys walk around bragging about their 325 pounds and two decades old football glory, but a cursory look at the BSIS site reveals they don't even have the minimum credentials. :rolleyes:
Agents wear shorts, unlaced boots, jewelry, and look like they stepped out of a rap or beach video... :coolguy: :mad:

I've often decried the whole atmosphere here, as the blurring of entertainment and protective industries, or of protector/domestic jobs, bring us all down (public and clientele perception, rates, etc.), that's for sure. Pretty hard to turn a client around after they've encountered enough wannabes.

Now for a guy like me (past my prime and medium speed :D), the real deal ops you talk about are not even a long shot. So I'm happy to chase a paycheck in our local target-rich environment, warts and all.

Would it be nice and gratifying if the standards were a little higher? You bet. But an agent who says "I don't do this" too often will simply not last on any of the details I've seen. My way of meeting people half-way is to explain why it is not a good idea to distract us, and then to still accommodate enough requests to circumvent the accusations of laziness sure to follow otherwise (so that in the end, most people describe me as a helpful pro). I know it's not ideal, just real-world stuff.

I'd like guys getting started in SoCal or struggling to stay busy to have a good grasp on their clients' expectations, and then to maintain personal and professional standards high enough to avoid shooting themselves (and all of us) in the foot. Low risk jobs and our clients' lavish lifestyles should not make us lower our guards or get confused so much that we turn the industry into a joke. I think they'd do well to prepare for some flexibility, though.

[SonnyPI]

Interesting topic and input from LT and Rick, whom I both respect highly.
Although starting in the family bail bond biz in Brooklyn back in the early 60's, my career focused predominately on investigations [federal, military and civilian] since then. I have also be an instructor of many related skills.

It was not until about 7 years ago that I became involved in being a bodyguard for predominately one client who was a long time family client. Because of my personal commitment to this client I felt it was necessary to expand upon my area of experience and knowledge of personal protection. That brought me to numerous consultations, training sessions, courses with government, military and executive professional training organizations such as BTI mentioned here.

As I planned to provide services for this one client my attention was focused on their needs and activities. That was and continues to be my priority in continuing education in this field. In that regard it makes it a bit easier for me. I do not have to deal with the assortment of client types most of you do. And I respect all of you for your ability to change gears as the client type and needs change. As many Marines know, we have lots of sayings, one is "Improvise, adapt, and overcome", well this old Marine can be a bit stubborn in that regard, lol

Without divulging or being indiscreet regarding my client I will share that he is a retired businessman, very successful and can spend his time doing whatever he choses wherever he chooses to do it. His passion if playing high stakes poker all around the world and in numerous states. Often with long time friends and business associates.

Venues can be hotels, casinos, private residences. With each excursion it is my responsibility to conduct all advance work, make arrangements, prepare for contingencies, anticipate personal needs and health concerns. I get my client from point a to b etc and back home safely.

I usually have the same driver at each venue unless circumstance and availability of him/her changes. In that case I only take on someone intimately familiar with the town & routes as I provide.

I am not a cook, errand boy, masseuse, although I was EMT certified and familiar with my clients health concerns and can direct paramedics and other medical professionals if the circumstances arise. I always have all the phone numbers, alternative numbers to every venue, restaurant, stop, security personnel/ manager, concierge, local hospitals, and LE agencies on the routes planned. I keep abreast of any possibility of something that may cause a delay while en route or return, whether on the ground or in the air.

What I am saying is, I provide security period, but know who what and where to get anything and everything done for my client in an expedited manner, without doing it myself. The fortunate thing with this type of situation, my client and I have strict understanding as to our communication in regard to his complying IMMEDIATELY with my instruction, whether it verbally, eye contact etc and they do not hesitate. He know to COMPLETELY defer to my judgment as it is for his welfare. Communication is paramount in this job.Being distracted does not keep the client safe. And as I recall vividly, CLIENT=SAFE!
My apology if the above was a bit long winded.

Cordially, Sonny

[Local Talent]

You won't get any grief for posting detailed answers from me (the "post whore" :D), Sonny, that's for sure! Quite the opposite: thank you for adding to this thread, especially in such a thoughtful and insightful manner.

I figured that more people would want to chime in because the issues of professional distance and "extracurricular services" are actually ones I've discussed at length with many agents. Discussed a lot more than how much physical risk we'd be willing to take, actually, and for good reason.

Readers afraid of being ridiculed for some of the things they do (or don't do) for their clients could always vote anonymously in the poll to give us an idea of where they stand, BTW... but frankly, I think that the respect that SCBA members obviously extend to each other makes this unnecessary.

The situation that Sonny describes with his main client is about ideal in my book. Now in most cases, I've been a hired gun sent by an agency so the dynamic was different. Most agents I've met fall also into that second category. Further, few of my clients had a clear understanding of the threat they faced so we often had a... focus disconnect. And it was of course up to me to read them and adapt to their needs.

As I've mentioned before, I've done a lot of estate work, and while those gigs are usually safe and predictable, and represent a steady paycheck, they tend to veer into another territory than protective work per se. Rick pointed this out very well too. Tricky waters to navigate, at times, and not all that glamorous. Given that (house) politics are what usually does us in, I think that diplomacy and the art of the compromise are major tools to acquire.

[Geo]

Great post Sonny I think as a Owner you get to set the tone from the start. I agree with the above post that is an ideal situation. In Ca will that be the case when you work for a company. Not always. I have been asked to do stuff which I politely declined from the start. Clients either rolled with it or immediately contacted the Owner of the company to complain. In most cases the owner of the company agreed with me. Being that I do this stuff part time. I do have the choice to work for companies that are on the same page as Sonny's post. But I do know many guys that get stuck and may not have the internal fortitude to set the perimeters of their duties. They like the cash and don't want to upset the client. But holding Saks 5 Ave bags and going out to pick up take out in not in the cards for me. I agree totally that communication is the key to this situation being set from the start. As far as house politics, the assistants, house managers and seconds assistants don't not write my checks. But they may have a inside knowledge to keeping the peace with the client. I try to show everyone the respect they deserve but keeping my dignity in the process. All the best. Geo

[SonnyPI]

Great post Sonny I think as a Owner you get to set the tone from the start. I agree with the above post that is an ideal situation. In Ca will that be the case when you work for a company. Not always. I have been asked to do stuff which I politely declined from the start. Clients either rolled with it or immediately contacted the Owner of the company to complain. In most cases the owner of the company agreed with me. Being that I do this stuff part time. I do have the choice to work for companies that are on the same page as Sonny's post. But I do know many guys that get stuck and may not have the internal fortitude to set the perimeters of their duties. They like the cash and don't want to upset the client. But holding Saks 5 Ave bags and going out to pick up take out in not in the cards for me. I agree totally that communication is the key to this situation being set from the start. As far as house politics, the assistants, house managers and seconds assistants don't not write my checks. But they may have a inside knowledge to keeping the peace with the client. I try to show everyone the respect they deserve but keeping my dignity in the process. All the best. Geo

Thanks Geo.....I am fortuate as I am in a position to pick and choose my bodyguard clients. I can assure you it was not always that way. Long ago as a young investigator I would pound on the doors of all the attorneys in an office building asking for an opportunity to work on a cold case for free. Just to show them I could provide a better quality of work than their previous or in house investigator. Years later I still have some of those clients. We all had to pay our dues and scramble to gain experience and add to our resumes.

No matter who you meet on the way up or while working a detail or mundane uniform security gig, it is important to ALWAYS maintain a professional and confident but not cocky demeanor. If you are able to instill confidence and be consistent, that will enhance your credibility and bring you many referrals down the line. You will be the one they will remember.Cordially, Sonny

[Local Talent]

As far as house politics, the assistants, house managers and seconds assistants don't not write my checks.
While it is true, these are the people who can easily make you leave the detail before you even think of putting your foot down. I've been watching this very situation unfold at the account I'm currently working.

Since everybody around the client thinks they know what we're doing and how we should do it, it sure is important to remember who signs the checks, yes. But I think it is also smart to remember that many folks have a level of access with the client that we can't even dream of, at least in the beginning. So without compromising the mission, I know I make sure not to step unnecessarily on any toes (Gucci-clad or not).

At an estate I covered, the housekeepers had the best intel on the clients movements while we were left completely in the dark - the beds had to be made whenever they were returning home, you see...
And at another, security had not been trusted with the gate code and we had to open for our relief. As my partner was explaining this to me, we watched a man in a pick-up truck punch in the code and drive right in in front of us. When we asked him who he was he stated (with quite the attitude) being the pool guy...
These are two examples of well paid gigs that drove home for me how much the clients think of their protective details. A bad word slipped in their ear from a chauffeur or nanny (very powerful, the nannies!) and you can be done without knowing what happened. Court politics.

I want to think that this is not the case on some jobs , but this is what I've observed with regularity, with many clients (celebs or business folks), and for many companies. I don't operate at the highest levels, however, where I imagine that bodyguards tell their clients how it's going to be and are in such demand that employers fight over them.

[Local Talent]

Just so we're all on the same page, I'm in no way saying that we should let ourselves be distracted or pulled from our duty. Just that there's an obvious expectation from most clients that we'll be "available" for other tasks, and that we will face the requests. I also believe from experience that, in most cases, rigidity will not earn respect, but a finger pointed at the door.

As a matter of fact, although I usually get high marks for my people skills and team spirit... I request graveyard whenever possible (normally reserved for rookies and not-too-sharp guys) precisely to keep from getting caught in those situations too often.

And having been royally screwed on a few occasions at accounts where brown noses angling to go in-house (always successfully) had turned their focus away from the mission and forced everyone else to do the same... I really have no respect for the so-called professionals turned assistants or servants. They should know better.

[Local Talent]

Thinking about this thread right now. I'm working at a celeb's estate, posted by the front gate. At relief time, as my partner and I were standing around this am, we watched 2 dogs run around the cul-de-sac we're in. I recognized them as the neighbors', but the dogs were unleashed and no one was with them. As I was remarking that those rich folks' pooches wouldn't last a round with a single scrawny coyote, one of the dogs squatted and proceeded to lay some serious pipe in my client's driveway, right in front of the gate and of our very eyes. It took all of 1.5 sec. :mad:
There is no on-duty maid there. Only clients and family were home. I looked down the street, but the damn neighbors were nowhere to be seen. So... I bit the bullet, grabbed a trash bag, and removed the offensive mess before someone drove or stepped in it.

Did I sign for this? Did I turn my back on potential threats (besides those to my delicate nostrils)? Did I do the right thing? Was this the first time (hmm, why do I always keep trash bags in my trunk?)?

I trained a couple of guys new to EP and estate gigs a few days ago. They asked whether there would be "menial" tasks to perform (maybe they had read this thread :)). "Well... expect some", I said. "It's not gonna be back to the wall squinting at crowds with your hand on the gun's butt, or running by a limo with 2 fingers on the hood."

Whatever happens on my watch, some of the main questions I ask myself on a regular basis are: could I have prevented this? Could I be blamed for it? Should I take action? And most of the time... they pertain to things that have NOTHING to do with what we all think of as the job.
The flip side of this is that many guys who have a very high opinion of their reputation on a detail are seen as lazy or useless (saw many come and go without getting a clue). Being perveived as "part of the team" is invaluable to secure jobs and accounts, but also to develop relationships that keep us informed. This way we can do a better job, too. If you're the guy who stays comfy in front of the TV while the little maid is breaking a sweat dragging the trash, don't expect an answer the next time you ask at what time the clients are coming home, for example.

We get paid for what we can do, not what we do; this much is true. But what we do (close to nothing in their mind) is often all that people get to see.

[Local Talent]

And another bump for this thread on a subject that, as I've said, comes up all the time...

I was just catching up last night with a couple of agents processing with an agency whose primary business is estate protection. When I worked for them, the operative words were "service industry" and I did agree with that. The whole "team player", "big picture" approach to the job.

Because just like a security guard is a person with limited skills posted somewhere to just stand and watch, while a security officer is a more rounded and trained individual, equipped to interact with the public and face various crises... I think that there's an industry move away from the "bullet-catching" bodyguard, and towards the more multi-faceted executive protection specialist. More skill and smarts than brawn, if you will.

Well, what those guys were telling me is that they had been advised right off the bat that estate work WOULD entail picking up dog poop and washing cars! Hmm, now that's taking things a little too far in my book, and really making the job into something else entirely, isn't it? :eek:

[RONIN]

and another bump for this thread on a subject that, as i've said, comes up all the time...

i think that there's an industry move away from the "bullet-catching" bodyguard, and towards the more multi-faceted executive protection specialist. More skill and smarts than brawn, if you will.

Well, what those guys were telling me is that they had been advised right off the bat that estate work would entail picking up dog poop and washing cars! hmm, now that's taking things a little too far in my book, and really making the job into something else entirely, isn't it? :eek:

my thoughts exactly!!!

[usabodyguard]

Im so tired of the same old stereotypes - And some guys walk around bragging about their 325 pounds and two decades old football glory......

wow, should I regret playing football (which paid for my school and I earned a degree while I was at it) and being over 300lbs (until recently, now im under the 300 mark!)... does the above mean I dont know anything? I guess I should give back my CA guard card, Ca exposed, CA CCW, Utah CCW, Florida CCW, NRA certifcates, and all of my training academy certs?

Just my $.02, no offence LT, it just gets old - but I agree, there are a lot of untrained guys out there, I guess I am the exception to the "big guy" rule...

:rant:

[Local Talent]

Wow, I'm afraid you read me wrong, Dave: size IS an advantage, and football, or whatever sport you've been involved in can only be a GOOD thing. What this comment addresses is not pros like you who offer so much more, but the many guys who walk around saying they should be bodyguards and the industry owes them a living by the sole virtue of their size. There's so much more to the job.

I keep being approached by guys who only have this on their lips: "Well, I'm big..." OK, that's nice. One guy last year wanted me to hook him up because he was in construction and had "a lot of strength" in his hands... And no, he didn't even have a guard card. :rolleyes:

The same thing could be said about any of the attributes that we consider helpful for the job: does having a badge, combat experience, MA training, or marksmanship skills a bodyguard make? Of course not. Does any of this help? No doubt.

If you wanna know, that remark of mine was specifically directed at a former co-worker who kept trying to impress people with his size and former athletic glory. The reality was that 20 years later, he was out of shape and completely ignorant of most aspects of the job - a laughingstock. His football career did pay for the college that he also kept bragging about and that unfortunately didn't show up in his pathetic writing or reasoning skills, BTW!

Look, it's not like big guys are stupid and small guys smart, that would be a really silly thing to say. But it's my experience that a lot of untrained guys rely solely on size, even when fat makes up most of it! They get a foot in the door because someone needs a warm body one day, then they remain more or less employed. I'm pretty sure that doesn't describe you and a lot of other big guys I've met. :)

[usabodyguard]

LT - the day we meet, which I know we will at some point, you will understand my above thread, Im very much a smartass and have rapier wit...

I know most big guys rely on size, and their cockiness for the most part - why do you think hollywood mocks these idiots?

My stature has good and bad points, believe me I know. The unfortunate aspect is being lumped into a generalized category of these "Big idiot" bodyguards... I wish more people realized the importance of training, let alone on-going training.

But seriously LT, its all good - it takes a whole lot to get under my skin

:D

[Local Talent]

Glad we got that cleared up: I don't need no 6'8" monster coming after me! :D

Seriously, besides fitting one's frame in compact cars or experiencing great discomfort while visiting Japan... a big size is rarely a problem, I would think. :)

The few jabs I took at "bullet-catchers" were obviously directed at those among us who think that size is everything or that tonnage is automatic superiority.
The industry is moving away from dumb and mean, not necessarily big.

You guys saw me argue for large calibers and solid powerful cars, so you know I understand the dynamics of a fight. Fast is good, but fast and powerful is better. But some simpletons seem think that a big fat RV is better than a BMW M5 because it's "bigger", and I'm sure that we all agree on the error of their ways.

All this to say that I hope the "physically advantaged" among us didn't think I was ragging on them - I know better. :)

And now who voted option #1?! lol

[usabodyguard]

Look, there are stereotypes in place for reasons.... what is the saying - there is a little truth in all jokes? I know I get stereotyped right off the bat in most situations in life, until they get to know me, and realize I do have a brain, and yes I am a jeopardy champion lol
I love my size, but being this size I know I have more limitations, especially the older I get, with my body... that is why I am on a complete lifestyle change - ive already lost close to 25lbs in the last 5 weeks, I have another 20 to go to my goal weight of 275lbs.
It is critical for me to maintain a healthy lifestyle, as I have already had my share of injury and health problems - to name a few - a complete dislocation of a knee (multiple surgeries), completely fused wrist, 2 concusions, several broken bones (all of these were a direct result from football - here is how dedicated or insane, depending upon how you look at it - I blew out my knee in a game, while wearing a full wrist cast, who does that??

To top it off, 4 1/2 years ago I received a KIDNEY transplant... (after being on dialysis for 2 years, thank you WIFE!!) and Im on transplant meds forever. Im good now, healthy as ive been in years - but ive had my challenges for sure.
Size is great, but as a long time friend greg townsend (#93) used to preech to me in Raider camp - technique is everything... so I have a mantra - -

Size wins the fight, technique wins the war...

Anyways, I digress, back on topic... LT, no need to watch your 6 buddy LOL, we're good
:thumbs:

[Local Talent]

Look, there are stereotypes in place for reasons.... what is the saying - there is a little truth in all jokes?
Oh, I'm with you: cliches exist for a reason. There's a kernel of truth at the center of each of them. Smart people just know to always be ready for the unexpected, especially from other people.

I must say I wasn't aware of the negative stereotypes attached to large individuals. I would've been more sensitive (not my forte but I think twice before writing something! :D).

As I said, being a large bodyguard is a plus and is expected from clients, companies and the public. So it's women and smaller guys who normally get ragged on. Although I do agree that size is usually an advantage (technique only goes so far), I personally have a hard time listening to put downs from human blobs who suffer from what I think is a body image disorder, however. Some guys are really convinced that you have to be the biggest in the room and that they look great in a suit that's bursting at the seams and is tearing up at the inner thighs because of all the rubbing. They wouldn't be easy to push aside and could soak up a lot of rounds, but besides that... we all know that they couldn't catch a dead chicken (that would require some bending over! :eek:).

Sorry to hear about your physical troubles, man. I suspect that the meds that you have to take have a lot to do with some excess weight, and that's no fault of yours. And if (stupid) people tend to underestimate your intellect... well, rejoice, my friend, because it's a wise man who lets others think he's a fool.

[Lone Wolf]

Ahhh while size often does matter lest we forget the small / average person.. You know what they say about dynamite.. It comes in small packages and has one hell of an explosion.. So just dont totally rule out the little guys either.. ;) Oh wait Im not that little.. Im 5'11 and 240.. HMMMMM

[Local Talent]

5'11", eh? Well, I've seen ads where they wouldn't consider anybody under 6 feet... :devil2:

Otherwise, big or small, I wouldn't dismiss anyone, period. You just never know with people. But we all know that size is a deterrent so it's obvious why larger agents would be preferred.

And if you've done any acting/extra work... you've probably noticed that the movie industry normally asks for 5'10" minimum for cop parts, while most LEAs have completely done away with height requirements. It's all about the public's expectations there too, not realism.

So truthfully, it's the vertically challenged among us who are constantly facing an uphill battle and struggle against stereotypes.

[Geo]

LEO Agencies have done away with height requirements due to the massive lawsuits that has been won by people who decided to sue over that issue

[chingometrico]

5 words, ( common sense and treat level )

[chingometrico]

doggy bone anyone??