Private Pistol Training in S. Cali

[Praetorian]

Can anyone recomend a GOOD private firearms instructor in the Southern California area. I am looking to get some 1 on 1 tactical training, beyond the static range time and "group" training environment.

Thanks all.

[Local Talent]

Welcome, Praetorian! You might get more answers if you describe your training level and how much you're planning to spend as "good" for you may not be for someone else, and vice versa.
Otherwise, I suspect that most of us take group instruction rather than one-on-one due to cost. After a quick look at most schools' websites, I couldn't find mention of private instruction anywhere, but it's probably available from most if you're willing to pay for it. IME and FYI, most schools provide enough instructors so that there's one for about 2-3 students (safety reasons).

And most (if not all) shooting ranges offer one-on-one instruction but the level only goes from beginner to intermediate at best, again IME. So all depends on what your exact needs are.

[Praetorian]

Thanks LT,
GEO recomended a great start for me.
Just for reference, I am a former Marine Rifleman, and an NRA pistol instructor and RSO. I have put thousands of rounds down range (and even had a few sent back my way.) I'm looking to get some quality tactical training with a pistol. I have plenty of standard "marksmanship" training on static ranges. I'm looking for the next step up. Shoot and move, weapons manipulation, transition drills, tactical reloads, etc. These are the things ranges seem to frown upon unless you are in a class with them, or get some 1 on 1 time with the in house "expert". These guys are good, but most teach "compition" type techniques. I need real world training. Not pretty, but effective!

[Local Talent]

Ah, thanks for clarifying: typical range instruction won't do in your case, then. As you state, the guys are IDPA types and don't necessarily teach at the level you need. They are perfect for beginners.
Now I can see why someone new to firearms would want to be alone with an instructor, but given your background I think you'd greatly benefit from (and enjoy) a class from TFTT (http://www.tftt.com/) or ITTS (http://www.internationaltactical.com/).
If you're a Weaver/Modern Technique-only shooter, you'll probably enjoy: Tacfire (http://www.tacfire.com/) or FTA (http://www.ftatv.com/).

"Running and gunning" on top of the latest tactical good stuff (which IS frowned upon at most ranges) is what these guys teach. You can always take the level 1 class to test the waters (typical cost is $150-300/day, a great deal when you consider that a 1-on-1 class would be $50-75/HOUR), then progress to the more advanced instruction that they usually reserve to people they "know".

For example, a TFTT Tactical Pistol 1 Class will get you up to speed on the basic techniques you need and put you through a simple but fun combat course. During their VIP Protection Course, you'll get to do live fire AOP drills, on foot or in vehicles. Does this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmHMGOrkbPQ look like fun? :D

Finally, we have a resident EP instructor here with Dave LaManno ("usabodyguard") whose school (site sponsor BTI) offers all that in an EP-specific package, as seen here: http://www.socalbodyguards.com/forum/showthread.php?t=344. He's a local and I would contact him directly to see what he offers in terms of 1-on-1 tac training.

ETA: oops... Only noticed now that you're already a BTI graduate and Marine, among other things. Well I hope that my last paragraph can be of interest to others wondering the same thing as you, Praetorian.

[MrD]

+1 to TFTT

[Local Talent]

With TFTT you will not TOFTT.

Sorry guys. I sat on that one for a while and then I couldn't help.

:D :D :D

[RHINOMAN]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to let you know that we offer many Tactical and Practical group and private classes based here in Southern California. AT RHINO TACTICAL, our classes are affordable and are geared toward many aspects of small arms shooting(rifles, pistols, and shotguns) including personal defense, tactical aggressive group defense, and competitional shooting as well to mention a few training types we offer. Tactical Competition type classes are also available and are geared toward getting your heart rate up to max levels while getting the body used to working at high stress points with hi awareness while operating complex motor skills. Our instructors are all contractor and military trained, current Law enforcement, and competitional shooters as well. Check us out when you get a chance and see if we have any training classes that might be suitable for what you guys are looking for. They are geared for civilivan, military, and police.

Thanks,

Jimmy "RHINO" Flores :copstick: :machinegunner:
WWW.RHINOTACTICAL.COM

Also just remember that many schools out there can offer different ways of employing tactics and training, so we always tell people the more training you get, the better. Take what you can from each school and place it into your arsenal and then keep training. Don't fall for schools who think they are the absolute best. Schools with pride are good, however, while I'm sure we are all efficient trainers with many different styles and strategies, schools are there to teach life saving skills not spread their own egos. In short we never stop learning in life, so as students of the art; we only stop learning when we die. To claim anyone is the best, only sets that person or school up for a stoppage in attaining more skills and mastery and passing that to their students in the future. :copcar:

[Geo]

Hey Rhino,
you may want to check with admin on here. Many of us have private training companies. Many of us are based in LA and are sworn. I believe they have a policy about posting private training information. Actually I believe they request for private companies to pay for that right. Just info only..Geo

[RHINOMAN]

Hey Geo,

Good to know. Was meant to educate and also let people know that Many of us on here offer good training programs. Just don't want people to narrow their minds and that ALL training is good training. Obviously there are those that may take advantage of newcomers to the industry, but hopefully all those that are training have credibility and really have a love and passion to train others crucial techniques not just to make a buck. Again, thanks for introducing yourself. You should also post up here for Praetorian as well. When people ask we should help where we can brother. Good to meet you brother.

P.S. send me a link to your site and we can also network as well.

Jimmy

[Local Talent]

Hey RHINOMAN, I think you make a lot of a good points.

Personally, I take everything and everybody with a grain of salt and that comes from having noticed that there's always many ways to skin a cat. :) When I was younger I was of course much more inclined to take the school's word as gospel.
Now I see classes as opportunities to be exposed to various and more recent techniques and, frankly, to practice (which is difficult with live fire outside of school settings). So I do believe in "sampling" as many schools and instructors as possible.

Not everything taught anywhere will have (instant) value for every student either, and that's OK. But I subscribe to your other statement that all training is good training: what I was shown may be of no use to me, but now at least I know why people do things a certain way and why they don't work for me. In the best case scenario, I may find that tweaking what I thought was best can be a good thing, or I may even have a complete epiphany that makes me reassess everything about my stance, gear selection, etc.
Training, like a lot of things in life, is about choices: it evolves, and the more options the better.

Now besides the actual value of any training, an element of status is also attached to the big names. A new agent starting out will want both a solid foundation and something recognizable on his resume, especially since his financial resources won't be unlimited. So people are naturally going to mention the big schools more, even if training just as good (or even better) is available elsewhere. If the fee's the same, people will gravitate toward courses that'll validate their resumes.

The student has to be educated and proactive enough to know what's out there and what his needs are ahead of time. Discussions like this one help in that regard. Then he needs to keep an open mind and be willing to challenge himself and whatever dogma he has accepted so far, which won't happen if he sticks to the same old, same old.

[Lone Wolf]

In this industry you can take various classes of the same nature from different instructors and get something different out of each class each time you take it..

Education and training are valuable assets to our field.. Without training you would just dry up and blow away...

Even us ole dogs learn new tricks occasionally...

[Local Talent]

All very true, Wolf. :thumbs:
I'd been shooting Modern Technique (if my 1911 addiction wasn't enough of a clue!) since the 80's, but am currently in a transition phase. Trying to assimilate and incorporate several elements (mostly stance and grip) to keep up with the times and due to some perceived limitations of the old doctrine. Turns out I was already doing more or less my own thing (more Chapman than Weaver, for example, and never a big believer in tac reloads or doubletaps).
So yes, even old dogs can and should (eventually...) learn new tricks.

I often quote Fred Astaire here, "the higher up you go, the more mistakes you're allowed. Right at the top, if you make enough of them, it's considered to be your style", even though people invariably object that:
1. shooting ain't dancing (specious),
2. I ain't Fred (true enough, but I ain't Jeff or Chuck either).
My point being, everyone has to find their own way, and since nothing comes out of thin air, the best way to come up with one's own style is to be exposed to as many as possible.

Another point I often make about training is that besides "resume-building", continuous education is good insurance against accusations of negligence in case one has to use force, deadly or not. Difficult to paint as an "accident waiting to happen" an agent who has documented honing his craft for years.

Going to enough and various classes (just like staying in shape) also shows employers and clients that one takes their job seriously. Dilettantes don't spring for training, they wear double-breasted suits and brag about how big they are (35% body fat). :D

The "grain of salt" I mentioned earlier comes from the fact that, as EP agents, we're supposed to be intelligent individuals who can tell when we're being fed BS. Just within the past 3 years, I've been told:
1. not to place my thumb on top of my gun's safety lest I want to break it,
2. to lock my elbows while shooting,
3. to accurately count my rounds during a gunfight,
4. not to use a light at night, or do headshots, lest I wanted to be tried for murder.
And I'm forgetting some... :rolleyes:
So while most people have good, and sometimes new, things to teach, following anyone's advice blindly is not what we do. The more instructors we encounter, the more we can separate useful stuff from bias and misguided innovation.

[Lone Wolf]

I agree with most of it but the way that I as a Certified NRA LE HANDGUN / SHOTGUN Instructor do instruct my students to lock their elbow (which ever hand is holding the firearm). I also instruct people to hold the weapon a little different than most people do.. Accuracy is everything especially if you are in a firefight and dont have a ton of ammo to expend... I have taken people in a few minutes that couldnt hit a mule in the ass with a bass fiddle to center mass each and every round... Ive had students tell me where they want the round to strike and put them there not just once or twice but the entire magazine... Shooting is a style.. and yes people have to develope "their own style" however, remember that perfect practice makes perfect.. If people continue to do the same thing the same way over and over and expect change.. Well I've been told its insane.. And that does make perfect sense to me...

Granted Im not what I consider an expert in the field... I know what works having taken bits and pieces from one class to another one putting them together and making them work... I am very happy with the way that I shoot and qual.. But I am always open to new suggestions and ways of doing things... Shooting has to be a personal style... and it has to be comfortable as well...

[Local Talent]

What I'm really opposed to is instructors that tell you, "you're doing it wrong - that's how it's done." Because there are too many variables, and because even the top shooters don't necessarily agree on everything.
Plus things change and pass: remember how they made us hook the trigger guard in the 80's? I can't believe the number of gun makers who still make square trigger guards, BTW...
So I much prefer, "why don't you try this, you might like it?"

I believe that a good instructor shows one technique and explains why he favors it, while acknowledging that there are others and showing them to students who can't perform with his style. Someone with a doctrinaire attitude is a one-punch fighter and is of little help to anyone one either side of the Bell curve.

Now Wolf, you seem to be referring to one-handed, bullseye-type shooting, correct? But in defensive shooting, between heavy-recoiling guns and rapid fire, locking anything batters joints and throws your aim from shot to shot. Typically, slightly bent elbows should work as shock absorbers.
Now if the shooter can't hold the gun firmly enough (weak or wounded), locking the elbow at least ensures that the gun will not short-stroke. Of course the point is moot with a wheelgun.

If we're talking two-handed shooting, then locking both elbows is already impossible in the Weaver where the weak arm is supposed to be bent. But whether in Isoceles or Weaver (I don't know how to call my own stance :D) few people lock elbows. I'm aware that some do and I'll have to look it up.

The guy who told me to lock elbows was israeli. He also advised parallel feet (not stable) and an extreme crouch with straight torso (which some deride as the "taking a dump in the woods stance" :D). The whole thing didn't make sense to me and I told him so. But what really bugged me was the dogmatic attitude.

Now I'm opinionated, but no expert either - just another dude who went to a couple o' classes and reserves the right to change his mind (never happens overnight)!

Just wish some of the talent on tap here would comment more.
I know what works having taken bits and pieces from one class to another one putting them together and making them work... [...] But I am always open to new suggestions and ways of doing things... Shooting has to be a personal style... and it has to be comfortable as well...
Yeah, that's also my M.O. :)

[Lone Wolf]

When I get out there we will hook up and I'll show you what Im talking about... I agree with you however, each instructor has something different that we can all learn from.. I dont use the Weaver or Isolese stance what I use is basically what is called an interrigotaion stance (god hope I spelled that right).. Anyway.. I personally use locked elbows is all of my shooting scenarios.. Thats my style.. I use it in paper punching as well as move and shoot.. Something that I was shown when I was working Nuke Security... But it works for me.. And as always if someone can show me something that works better or that I can adapt into my shooting style and make me more accurate.. Well.. Then HOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAHHHHH Im all about it.. Each of us have to build our own BASIC fundamentals and develope from there.. Then main thing that I am trying to say here is that if a person isnt happy with the way they are shooting, talk to different instructors see if you can get from them and work on technique and style.. Keep working at it until it works for you.. Make each and every round count like your very life depends on it...