The Legal Eagle...

[MrD]

Worked a gig this past weekend (So. Cal) with a variety of interesting detail members, from the squared away to the "celebu-guard". As sometimes occurs ;) a discussion about permits, licensing, and other legal rigamarole took place post-detail.

The greatest item of debate was ACTUAL licensing necessary to work as a protection agent or provide freelance protective services in CA.

Here are the three schools of thought presented:

1) You can only be hired to work freelance if you possess a PPO.
2) You can be hired with a guard card but only by someone in possession of a PPO
3) You can be hired freelance without a PPO, but only if "there is no written contract" (this was said with a nudge and a wink)
4) "What licensing?"

Curious to know the forum members' takes and experiences working within/outside these parameters.

Being the old guy, I showed my licenses, finished my beer and went home.

[Local Talent]

Hey MrD, good to hear from you again! The old pro that you are obviously already knows the answers to those questions and methinks you're just testing us... ;)

Personally and having never worked in-house or for government agencies, I'm a little fuzzy on some situations. Things are further complicated by the exceptions for peace officers (some training and licensing differences) and the question of armed or unarmed personnel (propietary S/O's are unarmed only), and concealed or exposed firearms, among other things.
This being said...

1. From Wikipedia: "a freelancer, freelance worker, or freelance is somebody who is self-employed and is not committed to a particular employer longterm."

2. From the BSIS website:
"Under the B&P Code, security guards and bodyguards are the same and are covered by the same laws. A bodyguard is a security guard. Peace officers frequently tell BSIS staff that since they are working in civilian clothes with a concealed weapon as bodyguards for VIPs or celebrities, they are not security guards. This is incorrect.

The laws, rules and regulations that apply to security guards apply to bodyguards. For example: If a security guard must be in a security guard uniform to carry an exposed weapon, then a bodyguard must be in a uniform to carry an exposed weapon. If a security guard who works in civilian clothes with a concealed weapon must possess a guard card and exposed firearm permit, and either possess a Concealed Firearms Permit (CCW), or be an honorably retired peace officer with an endorsement to carry a concealed weapon, or be an active duty peace officer, then a bodyguard who works in civilian clothes with a concealed weapon must possess a guard card, an exposed firearm permit and either possess a CCW, or be an honorably retired peace officer with an endorsement to carry a concealed weapon, or be an active duty peace officer." (http://www.bsis.ca.gov/customer_service/faqs/peace_officer.shtml)

3. From the Business & Professions (B&P) Code Section 7582-7582.28:
"7582.1. (a) A private patrol operator, or operator of a private
patrol service, within the meaning of this chapter is a person, other
than an armored contract carrier, who, for any consideration
whatsoever:
Agrees to furnish, or furnishes, a watchman, guard, patrolperson,
or other person to protect persons or property or to prevent the
theft, unlawful taking, loss, embezzlement, misappropriation, or
concealment of any goods, wares, merchandise, money, bonds, stocks,
notes, documents, papers, or property of any kind; or performs the
service of a watchman, guard, patrolperson, or other person, for any
of these purposes."

and:

"7582.2. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(a) A person who does not meet the requirements to be a
proprietary private security officer, as defined in Section 7574.1,
and is employed exclusively and regularly by any employer who does
not provide contract security services for other entities or persons,
in connection with the affairs of the employer only and where there
exists an employer-employee relationship if that person at no time
carries or uses any deadly weapon in the performance of his or her
duties. For purposes of this subdivision, "deadly weapon" is defined
to include any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a
blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sandbag, metal knuckles, any
dirk, dagger, pistol, revolver, or any other firearm, any knife
having a blade longer than five inches, any razor with an unguarded
blade and any metal pipe or bar used or intended to be used as a
club."
So to the best of my knowledge and understanding (:D), my answers are:

1) Correct. A PPO is required to be self-employed/freelance.
2) Correct... if armed. An unarmed guard/bodyguard could be proprietary (in-house) to one client instead of the employee of a PPO who contracts for that client. He would still need BSIS licensing as PSO.
3) Good one!
4) Even better!

If you are going to market your protective services to several clients (freelance), you are required to get a PPO, enter a service agreement with each, and can either protect them yourself or employ others to do the job.

If you are unarmed, you can become ONE client's bodyguard without a PPO. In that case, your client is your employer and you are NOT freelance.

If you are armed, you cannot be a proprietary S/O, and therefore are either in possession of a guard card if employed by a PPO to protect his clients, or of a PPO yourself.

Having always been either employed by a PPO or subbing for one, I may have a blind spot or two.

And now how about this question: is a CCW required if you're carrying concealed on a private property that is not open to the public, such as a residence? (I have seen convincing arguments on both sides... :eek:)

[usabodyguard]

Love the beer comment hahaha nice!

Here are the facts, all confirmed by BSIS -

In CA you MUST posses a security guard card to work as a security agent legally. With this card you can work for security companies that possess a PPO license. With your security guard card you can work DIRECTLY for anyone without a PPO... as long as you are a full employee!!

Whether you work directly for Vons as a secuity guard or Tom Cruise as a bodyguard, you must be a full employee and NOT a 1099 employee, and you can do so with JUST a security guard card, bypassing the PPO.

However you must have a PPO if you contract your services to people and then fill the positions with security agents.

[usabodyguard]

If you are armed, you cannot be a proprietary S/O, and therefore are either in possession of a guard card if employed by a PPO to protect his clients, or of a PPO yourself.

Didnt know this!! Thank you!

[Local Talent]

That 1099 scam is way too widespread, BTW. Only PPOs can be independent contractors. If an employer requires you to work that way (unlicensed/unsinsured), he is exposing himself to heavy fines.

[usabodyguard]

PSO can only observe and report, they do not have powers to arrest... which makes no sense. I posed a scenario to the BSIS tech - I said, if a PSO agent working at a night club sees an illegal act going down, he cannot perform a citizens arrest, but a bar patron who is 3 feet away WITHOUT a PSO card can make a citizens arrest... WTH?

It is clear that the BSIS laws governing security should all be reviewed and re-written... to include more license levels than just a PSO and a Guard card licenses, at least on the indivual level, to include EP agents and the like.

Just my .02

[usabodyguard]

That 1099 scam is way too widespread, BTW. Only PPOs can be independent contractors. If an employer requires you to work that way (unlicensed/unsinsured), he is exposing himself to heavy fines.

If celebrity X wants to hire joe schmoe security guard as thier personal security agent, as long as they hire them as a full inhouse employee, that is allowed without a PPO whatsoever... this fact was just confirmed by a phone call today with BSIS.

[MrD]

Good one, LT! Not really a test, but a good conversation starter. Always surprising to hear the (mis)information that gets spread around. And I am in serious agreement that rules and regs need a serious re-examination and overhaul.

"...CCW required if you're carrying concealed on a private property that is not open to the public, such as a residence?"

I heard of a possible security "angle" on this one:

Instead of concealed carry, your employer could make you wear a "uniform" (even if it consisted of jeans and a plain white t) as long as you had a patch designating you as "private security", thereby allowing you to carry exposed.

And I've heard it argued that on private property, your employer could conceivably bypass the security patch and allow you to wear the "uniform" of their choosing (say dockers and a button up shirt.

As for general concealed carry, is it YOUR property/residence? In which case do as you wish:

CA Penal Code Sectioin 12026

"b) No permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or
carry, either openly or concealed, shall be required of any citizen
of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who
resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within
the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this
code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, to
purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed,
a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person within the citizen's or legal resident's place of
residence, place of business, or on private property owned or
lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident".

Not sure about concealed on your employer's property...

[Local Talent]

It is clear that the BSIS laws governing security should all be reviewed and re-written...
Yeah, I've been doing this a while but had to spend some time on the BSIS site and going over my copy of its Laws & Regs to make sure I wasn't talking out of my behind too much. :D

I encounter many people in our field who seem very confused and say things such as #3 & 4 in the OP. And employers that could use refresher courses. That shouldn't be the case and happens when laws are adjusted and tweaked over the years to the point that the texts look like patchwork. Maybe we do need a reform, but then, there's also the B&P and penal codes that enter the picture and complicate things.

If celebrity X wants to hire joe schmoe security guard as thier personal security agent, as long as they hire them as a full inhouse employee, that is allowed without a PPO whatsoever... this fact was just confirmed by a phone call today with BSIS.
I agree, Dave. In that case the agent is the employee of the celeb and doesn't need a PPO. In the post you quoted, I was specifically referring to security companies (PPOs), not private parties, employing people and 1099'ing them. Only PPOs can sub for other PPOs.

Now my interpretation of the B&P Code Section 7582.2 I quoted above is that armed personnel cannot be proprietary. I just realized that there is no such thing as a proprietary gun permit. So an armed agent cannot have a PSO guard card. Someone with a CCW for example, would therefore need to either get a GC/FA permit and work for a PPO who has a contract with that client, or obtain a PPO himself and enter a contract directly with the client. I could be wrong, though.

[Local Talent]

Not sure about concealed on your employer's property...
And that is the question.

If you're armed and carry exposed, you should wear a BSIS-approved uniform. See:
BPC 7582.26 (f): No private patrol licensee or officer, director, partner,
manager, or employee of a private patrol licensee shall use or wear a
badge, except while engaged in guard or patrol work and while
wearing a distinctive uniform. A private patrol licensee or officer,
director, partner, manager, or employee of a private patrol licensee
wearing a distinctive uniform shall wear a patch on each shoulder of
his or her uniform that reads "private security" and that includes
the name of the private patrol company by which the person is
employed or for which the person is a representative and a badge or
cloth patch on the upper left breast of the uniform. All patches and
badges worn on a distinctive uniform shall be of a standard design
approved by the director and shall be clearly visible.
The director may assess a fine of two hundred fifty dollars ($250)
per violation of this subdivision.

and:

7582.27. (a) Any person referred to in subdivision (i) of Section
7582.26 who uses or wears a baton or exposed firearm as authorized
pursuant to this chapter shall wear a patch on each arm that reads
"private security" and that includes the name of the company by which
the person is employed or for which the person is a representative.
The patch shall be clearly visible at all times. The patches of a
private patrol operator licensee, or his or her employees or
representatives shall be of a standard design approved by the
director.

What constitues a "uniform" is often interpreted by PPOs and their employees, but the BSIS is clear and the goal is to prevent the possible perception that security personnel are police.

Now the Penal Code states that the owner of the property (business or residence) can carry concealed.
It also covers the employees of said owner at a place of business: they can possess (as in "have access to", not CCW). That's how you see people carrying at shooting ranges or in gunshops, or keeping guns in drawers in jewelry stores.
BUT, and to the best of my knowledge, the PC never addresses the issue of employees at a place of residence, which is exactly the case of estate security personnel, in-house or not.
I've "heard" that attorneys rely on past legal opinions and judgments to assess what's legal or not, but this is shaky ground. Some employers will have you keep weapons stored in a safe, others will issue uniforms so that weapons can be exposed, and others tell you that you can do what you want on private property or that "concealed means concealed". :rolleyes:

If you think PPOs are confusing people, start talking CCWs... :D

[Local Talent]

I have a feeling that the confusion mentioned in the OP comes from a misunderstanding of the term "freelance".
One can go work as a bodyguard for ONE individual and enter an employer/employee relationship with them. IF the relationship is exclusive (the bodyguard has only one client at a time) and IF the bodyguard is unarmed, there is no need for a PPO. That's what usabodyguard is referring to.
It's in the case when the bodyguard is self-employed and markets his services to several entities, or goes freely from one client to another, that he needs a PPO. That is freelancing.

I think that when the BSIS states that "only a licensed PPO may contract to provide bodyguard services or security guard services to any person or entity" (http://www.bsis.ca.gov/customer_service/faqs/peace_officer.shtml) , they mean "to provide not to ONE person or entity, but to ANY".

[MrD]

Great discussion!

Speaking of permits, licensing, and all the rest, here's the latest on the PA state trooper that Roethlisberger had with him.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/21/trooper-can-no-longer-work-for-roethlisberger/

[Local Talent]

That's why some LEAs either prohibit their officers from "moonlighting" or make them get permits to look at what exactly they're going to do off-duty and for whom. There's potential conflicts of interest and agency PR nightmares that civvies don't have to face.

[Lone Wolf]

That's why some LEAs either prohibit their officers from "moonlighting" or make them get permits to look at what exactly they're going to do off-duty and for whom. There's potential conflicts of interest and agency PR nightmares that civvies don't have to face.

Here in Florida, LEO's technically can not hold a security or investigators job without their agency writing a letter to the State authorizing them to do so.. They are also very strict on what the LEO's can do...

[Local Talent]

Reviving this old thread because of a similar discussion I've been following on another forum.

The BSIS, that wants everybody licensed, makes it sound like one is EITHER contract OR proprietary security personnel. A mention of "exceptions" is made (they only refer you to B&P Code section 7574).
But one poster made the valid point that EP agents are usually NOT uniformed and usually DO carry weapons, which makes it impossible for them to be PSOs. And since a bodyguard employed by a private party clearly doesn't need a PPO or to be a contract guard either (those go from account to account)... that seems to leave them in a grey area.
If someone has a better grasp on the matter, please enlighten us as it comes up all the time.

Within the scope of the OP, WRT freelancing per se, self-employed individuals must have a PPO (and the attending business license, insurance, guard card, and all required permits). Someone who is in an exclusive employer/employee relationship is in a different situation.

[Secfor]

I'm so glad I only work outside the US...

[Local Talent]

LMAO! Sometimes, I'd prefer to have lead flying my way! It's typical Cali, though. They don't make it easy and confusion is the law of the land...

I'd pull my hair out if I had any. :D

[Lone Wolf]

I would love to be working outside the US right now.. However... Im not so I have to make the best out of a bad situation.. the economy is really causing havoc here in Florida.. In both EP and Security work