Want a gun not on the roster?

[Local Talent]

As you guys know, I'm a 1911 man. And I happen not to like firing pin safeties. Well, the only quality production guns imported here without FPS are Dan Wessons and Springfield Armory's. So when shopping for a Commander-sized piece, and not wanting to spring $2.5K for a semi-custom like Brown (the only Brown in that size being the Kobra Carry, BTW), the ONLY gun that fit my criteria was a DW CBOB. Yes, SA makes a Champion, but it's a 4" and that won't do (I know, I know).

Given how blessed we are to live in CA, I also waited FIVE months and paid about $300 more than the rest of the country for that gun in '07... :mad:

Now I have more pressing needs than another gun at the moment, but I'm still on the look-out and, man... is it depressing all the stuff we can't touch because it's not on "The List".

I know that some of you are not really gun guys (what are you doing reading this, then?! :p) and would probably advise me to get a Glock and get over it. I also know that the list is going nowhere so complaining is not going to do any good.
And I don't buy used guns or want to go through the hassle of using backdoor deals like "importing" myself.

My question is: (for those who understand and sympathize...) anyone else prevented from getting the blasters they'd want because they're not CA-approved?

If they were available here, I'd seriously look at these, for starters (Colt Series 70, DWs Heritage & VBOB):
http://www.socalbodyguards.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=5&pictureid=116 http://www.socalbodyguards.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=5&pictureid=117 http://www.socalbodyguards.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=5&pictureid=118

[Local Talent]

Having corresponded by PM with people from out of state who had no idea what I was talking about, and given how many members we have in other countries too, I'll explain a bit.

About 10 years ago the great state of California decided to protect its citizens against unsafe handguns, you know, all these cheaply-made "Saturday night specials" that were then apparently flooding the streets (?). So the DOJ created a roster of guns deemed "drop-safe". There are exceptions (like for LEAs or antiques, and police and collectors are therefore allowed to "endanger" the public with "unsafe" weapons :rolleyes:), but in effect, no gun outside that list can be sold in CA.

For a gun to be on the list, a manufacturer has to send 3 to be tested and dropped from various heights on its muzzle, sides, top, and hammer (destroyed). Then, the manufacturer has to pay a fee every 2 years (I think it's $200) for each gun to stay "rostered".

What this does is prevent small gun makers from selling in CA. Some also stay out of our market on principle (STI). Certain models, such as some 1911s without firing pin safeties (the way they should come), can't be had here (ex: Colt Series 70).

Since a more recent law requires semis to have both a loaded chamber indicator and a magazine disconnect (no 1911 can have the latter), only 1911s previously rostered AND whose manufacturer keeps paying the racket, I mean, fee, can be sold here. So no new 1911 model can ever reach CA (ex: VBOB).

The above is a good illustration of how small and apparently harmless increments in gun laws eventually help liberals meet their goal of keeping guns away from a particular state. Just like with the assault weapons ban, the legislation becomes so arcane and confusing that even DAs admit to not knowing how to enforce it. That leaves gun owners in the tricky situation of staying on top of all the law changes (a real challenge) and finding loopholes in order to get the stuff that kinda fits their needs.

Back to my OP, in a market with a myriad of 1911s, if you have any restricting criteria (I don't want firing pin safeties or front cocking serrations, for example), you can end up with only one or two satisfactory guns once the roster thing comes into play.

They're also making it more and more difficult to get ammo, too... Mail-ordering large quantities of designer or duty ammo (DoubleTap, BuffaloBore, and the best LE stuff like HSTs or Rangers) is no longer an option. :mad:

Take a look at our list and cry: http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/. MA has a similar one (surprise!).
:rant:

[Lone Wolf]

Thanks for sharing the information LT.. What a pain in the ass this is and while we have spoken alot on PM I agree that it is just the small things that lead to large issues like this type of gun control... I also believe that it is just a matter of time until the NRA sets its sites on California, with what they are undertaking right now.. IE NRA vs. DC and the City of Chicago its just a matter of time I do believe.. (Our presidents home turf). Support gun legislation petition the lawmakers of Cali to lighten the gunlaws in your state.

[Local Talent]

[...] I agree that it is just the small things that lead to large issues like this type of gun control...
Incremental approach. Inch by inch, they're shooting for a mile.

I was just thinking the other day that this concept of layers is exactly what we apply in the protective business. Each layer, taken separately, is easily defeated, but when you pile them on, the defenses end up making the target too hard for all but the most dedicated/desperate criminals.
We want to keep threats from reaching our clients - antis want to make is so hard to own/carry a gun that most give up. Similar M.O.
Right now it's not politically viable to go all-out for the antis. But they want to turn gun owners into a small minority that will then easily be painted as fringe fanatics. :mad:

I'm venting about the roster because we're on a SoCal forum, but I think that other places have lists even worse than ours (MA?).

[Lone Wolf]

Incremental approach. Inch by inch, they're shooting for a mile.

I was just thinking the other day that this concept of layers is exactly what we apply in the protective business. Each layer, taken separately, is easily defeated, but you pile them on, the defenses end up making the target too hard for all but the most dedicated/desperate criminals.
We want to keep threats from reaching our clients - they want to make is so hard to own/carry a gun that most give up. Similar M.O.
Right now it's not politically viable to go go all-out for the antis. But they want to turn gun owners into a small minority that will then easily be painted as fringe fanatics. :mad:

I'm venting about the roster because we're on a SoCal forum, but I think that other places have lists even worse than ours (MA?).

I have to agree with this statement.. There is one or two other places that are worse than Cali, but those are being taken apart one at a time.. Ie New York, DC, Chicago.. If its not on a statewide basis its a city thing..

[Local Talent]

I sure hope you're right, Wolf. As I said earlier, it's very possible that socialist scarecrows like our current CIC (:rolleyes:) actually energize gun-friendly voters and pols. A tide reversal in Cali would be most welcome.

[SonnyPI]

Ah what a relief, another 1911 supporter.
My daddy was an armorer and I starting shooting a 1911 in the early 60's. Have been carrying a LW Commander made for me by Colt while still at Camp Pendleton in 1978; BUG is a Detonics Combat Master 3.5 barrell both of which use interchangable mags. The Detonics was delisted by CA in 2008. Just another of the many reasons for my departure for that state.
Cordially, Sonny

[Local Talent]

There's less and less of us, it seems, Sonny... Once considered hardcore or old school, 1911 guys are more and more viewed as "hobbyists" these days. :rolleyes:
Colt LWC & Detonics CM sound like a perfect setup to me!

Shallow as it sounds to some, guns laws are what ends up pushing quite a few people out of CA. It's not just frustrating not to get what you want - it's getting too hard to be sure we're in compliance. :mad:

[Local Talent]

Update: since I started this thread I learned that there is a way around the roster besides the used market, private importation, and other schemes like buying from an LEO friend. Some California FFLs specialize in the "one-shot exemption" and are able to import non-rostered guns, modify them to comply with our stupid laws, then sell them here to people who are then free to return the guns back to their original configuration. Basically, a much longer barrel and a condemned magazine are installed, but it's reversible.

Valkyrie Arms (Milpitas) is well known for providing this "service", and there's a few threads about the maneuver on calguns.net. Frankly I can't believe it's legal, but it shows you how hypocritical gun laws are - they're just about throwing hoops at you to jump through and milking you along the way.

Of course the whole deal involves extra costs and buying guns that you can't see in person at your local shop, plus trips to shops not necessarily local to you.

Given that 1911s don't come with mag disconnects, NO new model will ever be sold to CA unless some of our heinous laws are repealed, so that forces buyers to get creative if they're not satisfied with whatever the man says they should be content with. In the ol' Soviet Union, they also deemed that only party officials "needed" a car and that they should all be happy with a POS Zastava.

[LMT]

LT,

What are the laws for moving into the state with a weapon that is not on the list ???

[Local Talent]

From the horse's mouth: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/ab991.php.

"Any person who moves into California and who brings any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person is considered to be a "Personal Handgun Importer" and is required to do one of the following within 60 days:

•Complete and submit a NEW RESIDENT HANDGUN OWNERSHIP REPORT form along with $19.00 to the Department of Justice. A separate report form and $19.00 fee is required for each handgun reported. NEW RESIDENT HANDGUN OWNERSHIP REPORT forms can be obtained from California Department of Motor Vehicles' offices, licensed firearms dealers, local police and sheriff's departments, the California Department of Justice Bureau of Firearms at (916) 263-4887, and from the Online Forms Page at this site.
•Sell or transfer the handgun(s) to a California licensed firearms dealer or to another individual using a California licensed firearms dealer to conduct the transaction.
or

•Sell or transfer the handgun(s) to a California police or sheriff's department. Persons choosing this option should contact the law enforcement agency for instructions prior to transporting the handgun(s) to the agency."
And calguns.net has the best info on these matters.

AFAIK, firearms classified as assault weapons in CA and mags with a capacity over 10 rounds cannot be imported into the state. But handguns don't have to be on the roster.

[LMT]

So my ak and my 3 ar15's cant come with if i decide to move to ca to chase after my ep dreams...................lame

[Local Talent]

I got a feeling you're kidding, since you live in another very restrictive state, but as far as the long guns, I believe there are ways to mod them into compliance. But I'm not following that - it's a whole scene and I have little use for rifles.

I'm an example of how gun laws work, BTW: you make them arcane and cryptic enough (gun shops, LEOs, and even DAs are confused in CA)... and the non-dedicated public is driven away for fear of being taken to jail for something as ridiculous as a bayonet attachment.

[LMT]

No i'm serious, for some reason ak-47's ar legal in ma along with ar-15

but if i want a glock i have to pay 600 for a used first gen ha!!!

Weird thing is ma bans assault weapons per the definition used in the assault weapons ban. Yet you take a drive down the street to the local gun shop ( owned and operated by several high ranking local police officers ) and there are ak 47's and ar-15 sitting on the shelf.

I have always felt that gun laws only hurt the people willing to fallow them. If your a drug dealer committing felony's day in and day out, whats a weapons charge???? Nothing.

Ct is trying to out law anything over 10 rounds for pistols. As if 15 rounds will hurt you more than 10 .....?? Also if some one is deranged enough to go into a public place and start shooting, the fact that he cant legally obtain a 33 rounder for his glock probably isn't going to stop him.......

Idk man it get me worked up, but ill save it for my own thread.

Cheers
evan

[Local Talent]

Yeah, politicians have their (not so well) hidden agendas (like slowly and surreptitiouly disarming the public), but when you talk to most non-gun people, and even some self-proclaimed gun folks, it's easy to see where all the stupid laws are coming from. Lots of ignorance, irrational fears, and NIMBY prejudices.

When someone only uses a gun for hunting, they declare that 3 rounds are enough. When someone is issued a 9mm for duty, they pontificate about how a .45 is too much for civvies. When someone has kids, they get shooting ranges (OMG, lead!!!) kicked out of their neighborhood... Meanwhile, they send their precious cherubs to school grounds made carcinogenic by a nearby oil well (happened recently in Beverly Hills!) and feed them fake food (you don't wanna know what McNuggets or jello are). :rolleyes:

You're right, it's a topic for another thread on the dumbing down and castration of the western world. I'm old and jaded, but that little game of jumping through endless hoops and paying even more fees does get to me too at times. Kafka was just ahead of his time...